Dr. Michelle Martin | Author
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9 Myths about Trump's 'Zero-Tolerance' Policy

6/18/2018

 
​There is so much misinformation out there about the Trump administration's new "zero tolerance" policy that requires criminal prosecution, which then warrants the separating of parents and children at the southern border. As a professor at a local Cal State, I research and write about these issues, so here, I wrote the following to make it easier for you:

Myth 1: This is not a new policy and was practiced under Obama and Clinton - FALSE.

The policy to separate parents and children is new and was instituted on 4/6/2018. It was the “brainchild” of John Kelly and Stephen Miller to serve as a deterrent for undocumented immigration, and some allege to be used as a bargaining chip. The policy was approved by Trump, and adopted by Sessions. Prior administrations detained migrant families, but didn’t have a practice of forcibly separating parents from their children unless the adults were deemed unfit. Here is the memo.
Myth 2: This is the only way to deter undocumented immigration: FALSE. 

Annual trends show that arrests for undocumented entry are at a 46 year low, and undocumented crossings dropped in 2007, with a net loss (more people leaving than arriving). Deportations have increased steadily though (spiking in 1996 and more recently), because several laws that were passed since 1996 have made it more difficult to gain legal status for people already here, and thus increased their deportations (I address this later under the myth that it's the Democrats' fault).

What we mostly have now are people crossing the border illegally because they've already been hired by a US company, or because they are seeking political asylum. Economic migrants come to this country because our country has kept the demand going. But again, many of these people impacted by Trump's "zero tolerance" policy appear to be political asylum-seekers. 


​Myth 3: Most of the people coming across the border are just trying to take advantage of our country by taking our jobs: FALSE.

Most of the parents who have been impacted by Trump's "zero tolerance" policy have presented themselves as political asylum-seekers at a U.S. port-of-entry, from El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras. Rather than processing their claims, according to witness accounts, it appears as though they have been taken into custody on the spot and had their children ripped from their arms.

The ACLU alleges that this practice violates the US Asylum Act, and the UN asserts that it violates the UN Treaty on the State of Refugees, one of the few treaties the US has ratified. The ACLU asserts that this policy is an illegal act on the part of the United States government, not to mention morally and ethically reprehensible. Here's an article about criminal charges against Tyson for recruiting undocumented migrants directly from Mexico during the Chicken Boom (that era when everyone stopped eating beef and started to eat more chicken because they thought it was healthier).

Myth 4: We're a country that respects the Rule of Law, and if people break the law, this is what they get: FALSE.

We are a country that has an above-ground system of immigration and an underground system. Our government (under both parties) has always been aware that US companies recruit workers in the poorest parts of Mexico for cheap labor, and ICE (and its predecessor INS) has looked the other way because this underground economy benefits our country to the tune of billions of dollars annually. Thus, even though many of the people crossing the border now are asylum-seekers, those who are economic migrants (migrant workers) likely have been recruited here to do jobs Americans will not do. Here is an article that describes how our economy is dependent on undocumented labor.

Myth 5: The children have to be separated from their parents because the parents must be arrested and it would be cruel to put children in jail with their parents: FALSE.

First, in the case of economic migrants crossing the border illegally, criminal prosecution has not been the legal norm, and families have historically been kept together at all cost. Also, crossing the border without documentation is typically a misdemeanor not requiring arrest, but rather has been handled in a civil proceeding. Additionally, parents who have been detained have historically been detained with their children in ICE "family residential centers," again, for civil processing. The Trump administration's shift in policy is for political purposes only, not legal ones. Here is the ACLU lawsuit. See p. 18. 

Myth 6: We have rampant fraud in our asylum process, the proof of which is the significant increase we have in the number of people applying for asylum. FALSE.

​The increase in asylum seekers is a direct result of the increase in civil conflict and violence across the globe. While some people may believe that we shouldn't allow any refugees into our country because "it's not our problem," neither our current asylum law, nor our ideological foundation as a country support such an isolationist approach. There is very little evidence to support Sessions' claim that abuse of our asylum-seeking policies is rampant. Also, what Sessions failed to mention is that the majority of asylum seekers are from China, not South of the border. Here is a very fair and balanced assessment of his statements.

Myth 7: The Democrats caused this, "it's their law." FALSE.

Neither the Republicans nor the Democrats caused this, the Trump administration did (although the Republicans could fix this today, and have refused). I believe what this myth refers to is the passage of the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act, which were both passed under Clinton in 1996.

These laws essentially made unauthorized entry into the US a crime (typically a misdemeanor for first-time offenders), but under both Republicans and Democrats, these cases were handled through civil deportation proceedings, not a criminal proceeding, which did not require separation. And again, even in cases where detainment was required, families were always kept together in family residential centers, unless the parents were deemed unfit (as mentioned above).

The administration has also referred to the Trafficking in Person's Act (TIP), which I will address in my next blog post. Basically, Trump's assertion that he hates this policy but has no choice but to separate the parents from their children, because the Democrats "gave us this law" is false and nothing more than propaganda designed to compel negotiation on bad policy. Here's a good article about the zero-tolerance policy. Many articles are evolving as the administration reveals more information about their motives. 

Myth 8: The parents and children will be reunited shortly, once the parents' court cases are finalized: FALSE.

Criminal court is a vastly different beast than civil court proceedings. Also, the children are being processed as unaccompanied minors ("unaccompanied alien children"), which typically means they are in the custody of the Office of Refugee Resettlement (ORR), which is part of the Department of Health and Human Services (DHS).

Under normal circumstances when a child enters the country without his or her parent, ORR attempts to locate a family member within a few weeks, and the child is then released to a family member, or if a family member cannot be located, the child is placed in a residential center (anywhere in the country), or in some cases, foster care. Prior to Trump's new policy, ORR was operating at 95% capacity, and they simply cannot effectively manage the influx of 2000+ children, some as young as 4 months old.

Also, keep in mind, these are not unaccompanied minor children, they have parents. There is great legal ambiguity on how and even whether the parents will get their children back because we are in uncharted territory right now. According to the ACLU lawsuit (see below), there is currently no easy vehicle for reuniting parents with their children.

Additionally, according to a May 2018 report, numerous cases of verbal, physical and sexual abuse were found to have occurred in these residential centers.  

Myth 9: This policy is legal: LIKELY FALSE.

The ACLU filed a lawsuit against the Trump administration on 5/6/18, and a recent court ruling denied the government's motion to dismiss the suit. The judge deciding the case stated that the Trump Administration’s policy is "brutal, offensive, and fails to comport with traditional notions of fair play and decency." The case is moving forward because it was deemed to have legal merit. Here is an article that describes the judge's comments.

This post is also on my personal Facebook page as a public post
Cara Cody-Braun
6/19/2018 04:36:41 am

This is soooooo good. Thank you!

Andrea
6/19/2018 07:37:24 am

Thank you for writing this!

Roberta Douglas
6/19/2018 12:46:07 pm

Since you publish your work on FB, with no comments area, I guess I have to comment hear, once more the Ph.D. Comes out to tell us the (truth))))). From our wonderful liberal California. Before you attack the fed govt, try fixing that states mess. No no no I do not agree with you, as is my right, you love to take the liberal way rather than the truthful way. As usual another Ph.D. Who has zero common sense.

John Tennant
6/19/2018 03:26:09 pm

What in this blogpost did you find untruthful? Or, is this just anotherTrumpian attempt to assault facts? One of Higher Education’s role in society is citizen education, which Dr. Martin is admiarably attempting.

Nicolas
6/19/2018 09:44:54 pm

You are as stupid as Donald Trump or even more which is nearly impossible!!

Jennifer Poole
6/19/2018 11:56:36 pm

And who are you?

Laura
6/20/2018 07:50:01 am

You lost credibility with the word “hear.” I’ll take well-researched facts over emotionally-driven attacks any day. By the way, my sister has a farm and has open jobs she can’t fill. Please apply.

Steve Frisch
6/20/2018 07:56:45 am

California is now the 5th largest economy in the world. Californians provide a surplus to the federal government in taxes paid of approximately $330 billion per year. California has the 6th highest per capita income in the country. In 2016, before Trump I might add, California had a 3.39% GDP growth, almost 50% higher than the rest of the nation. California has created more new jobs in the last 2 years than the next 2 states (Texas and Florida) combined. 4 of the worlds 10 largest companies are located in California. California has the most diverse economy of any state in the Union.

We have our problems, and our work cut out for us: we need to spread the benefits more equitably, we need to reduce poverty, we need to invest in infrastructure...but we are not waiting for a rational federal government we are doing it on our own and the rest of the nation will catch up one day.

Carol
6/20/2018 09:10:27 am

Roberta. learn how to spell.

Patti Jefferson
6/20/2018 09:56:59 am

Roberta, please do share your version of the "truthful way" with source material to support your views. We'd would love to hear your side. Thanks!

Joe
6/20/2018 10:27:15 am

Your #1 point says that you’re lying! It says they’re going to enforce the policy, not that it was implemented then!

Also, the details behind this policy happened all the way back in 1997! They either had to release them within 20 days or separate them in order to detain them longer!

Even further, Obama’s administration not only kept these kids in worse conditions, there’s actual evidence they did detain them and then handed a bunch of them over to child trafficking rings! Yeah that’s way better than this policy!

So please stop with these propaganda pieces, the president does not set policy, that’s congress... If you want this to stop, tell Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, Kamala Harris, and Corey Booker to bring the rest of their cronies to the table and negotiate a deal rather than trying to politicize this whole thing!

However, today Trump will sign an executive order regarding this policy and he will order the whole families detained together... Then you phoney Democrats will challenge a detention of more than 20 days so as to allow the whole family in without documentation and then they will be separating them again.

Now here’s a real fun fact for you... 10000 of the 12000 kids in custody were sent here alone, or with somebody other than their parents.

Mark Callender
6/21/2018 10:32:28 am

What do you find untruthful about this blog. I am also a little surprised that a possible trumpet is posting about truth.

Michael Lynch
6/21/2018 12:05:07 pm

What do you find untruthful? You haven't made a case other than "I don't like this".

Marcel Kincaid
6/22/2018 06:00:32 am

Dear Roberta,

You are illiterate, stupid, ignorant, and intellectually dishonest. You represent the right wing and Trump supporters so well.

Marcel Kincaid
6/22/2018 06:03:11 am

That's a pack of lies, Joe.

Mickey Souza
6/19/2018 08:11:19 pm

Thank you for sharing. I am deeply religious and resent the fact that these racists such as Sessions quote the bible to attain his own ends: Matthew 4:6. There are no bible versus saying that it is holy to take a child from their parents. Only a raging bigot would try to tell you that it is the fault of the child or the parent that is trying to protect the child. I am so tired of bigots who are only interested in protecting their privileges by stepping on the neck of the vulnerable, or especially a child. Anyone condoning these actions have lost their soul, and if there is a shred of soul left, it belongs to Beelzebub. Here, I have a bible verse for you: Matthew 25: 40-46. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+25%3A40-46&version=NIV

Jeff
6/20/2018 10:31:25 am

Umm, Israel in the Old Testament was very much against mixing with the gentiles, I guess you didn’t read that part of the book huh?

As for calling them racists, you would actually have to back that up with more than just your anger.

Gerhard
6/21/2018 12:54:53 pm

Jeff, you may want to reread the old testament. There are plenty of verses that require that the Israelites were to treat foreigners well.

Michael
6/21/2018 11:17:00 pm

Jeff, the old testament eh? That's a rich book, you way want to read it for yourself:

“Do not mistreat or oppress a foreigner, for you were foreigners in Egypt.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭22:21‬ ‭NIV‬‬

“When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the Lord your God.”
‭‭Leviticus‬ ‭19:33-34‬ ‭NIV‬‬

“He defends the cause of the fatherless and the widow, and loves the foreigner residing among you, giving them food and clothing. And you are to love those who are foreigners, for you yourselves were foreigners in Egypt.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭10:18-19‬ ‭NIV‬‬

“Do not deprive the foreigner or the fatherless of justice, or take the cloak of the widow as a pledge. Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and the Lord your God redeemed you from there. That is why I command you to do this. When you are harvesting in your field and you overlook a sheaf, do not go back to get it. Leave it for the foreigner, the fatherless and the widow, so that the Lord your God may bless you in all the work of your hands.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭24:17-19‬ ‭NIV‬‬

“Cursed is anyone who withholds justice from the foreigner, the fatherless or the widow.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭27:19‬ ‭NIV‬‬

“This is what the Lord says: Do what is just and right. Rescue from the hand of the oppressor the one who has been robbed. Do no wrong or violence to the foreigner, the fatherless or the widow, and do not shed innocent blood in this place.”
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭22:3‬ ‭NIV‬‬

“This is what the Lord Almighty said: ‘Administer true justice; show mercy and compassion to one another. Do not oppress the widow or the fatherless, the foreigner or the poor. Do not plot evil against each other.’”
‭‭Zechariah‬ ‭7:9-10‬ ‭NIV‬‬

“So I will come to put you on trial. I will be quick to testify...against those who defraud laborers of their wages, who oppress the widows and the fatherless, and deprive the foreigners among you of justice, but do not fear me,” says the Lord Almighty.”
‭‭Malachi‬ ‭3:5‬ ‭NIV‬‬

Marcel Kincaid
6/22/2018 06:05:01 am

Jeff is appallingly ignorant and dishonest.

Mark Olague
6/19/2018 08:45:45 pm

Thank for this comprehensive resoonse and the clarification. When you’re dealing with falsehood, the truth in all it’s longwinded details is the perfect counteragent. My only recommendation is to add a but more historical context of the origins of MS-13. I’m from L.A. and the gang arose of the Salvadoran immigrant and refugee community in L.A. in the 1980s. Members were the offspring of those fleeing the civil war in Latin America, who formed the gang to protect themselves from other local gangs. Most founding members of MS-13 are native-born or naturalized Americans. The gang was therefore not imported from El Salvador but exported to the country by relatives who returned to the country. So in effect, the problem began due to U.S. involvement in the “dirty wars” in Latin America, particularly Central America that we exported back to the country. We have created the Central American refugee crisis.

Jeff
6/20/2018 10:36:43 am

Regardless of how they got started, they were exported by the federal government because of their various felonies and undocumented status. In their home country they began to grow and flourish where they became what they are today.

Marcel Kincaid
6/22/2018 06:05:54 am

Stop with your ignorant lies and trolling, Jeff.

Kelly Miller
6/19/2018 08:56:50 pm

I would like to add that this has been ruled by the UN as a violation of international law. Then the US left the human rights council, rather than listening to the UN and putting a stop to the separation of children. They felt the UN was biased against them and Israel and not criticizing others countries enough. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/18/world/europe/trump-migrant-children-un.html

Alan Rash
6/19/2018 09:55:24 pm

I believe the United States should be allowed to prosecute criminally all who cross the border illegally. It is unfortunate that in the past, immigrants new that if they crossed with children that there would be leniency. I believe Paul Ryan is working on changing the law so we can prosecute criminally and keep the children with their parents, but the law is what it is at this point. We should not be blamed for enforcing it. A couple things not mentioned here. 1) If you are legitimately seeking asylum from your country, you are to go to the nearest point of entry and tell them you are seeking asylum. If you do this, you will not be separated from your family. Fact. 2) I do not believe that children should be separated from their parents, but I would ask, If you are not taking the right steps to enter this country, if you are putting your own children in harms way, when are we allowed to blame you for your actions? 3). The policy is zero tolerance. It is not separate children from their parents. This is the law. We need to change the law, not Trumps policy.

Nancy Nowlin
6/19/2018 11:19:42 pm

You make statements without any documentation Alan Rash... You number one states that if you seek asylum you won't be separated from your family yet that is exactly what is happening. "Fact"2 is not a fact but an opinion and a question. number 3 the law does not require separation of families and doesn't require that those attempting to seek asylum should be treated as criminals. This administration has committed international crimes by the treatment of these people and especially the children. I hope that we can get thru this as quickly as possible so that we can get back to the real story of an administration that is committing treason and taking the world to the brink of war.

Jeff
6/20/2018 10:40:01 am

Fact #1 10000 of the 12000 kids in custody were sent here alone, or with somebody other than their parents!

Fact #2 This is being used as propaganda by left wing media groups to try and get back into power where they can then steal more of your rights.

Marcel Kincaid
6/22/2018 06:07:00 am

Fact: Jeff is a lying ignorant troll.

Ted Herr
6/20/2018 05:23:49 am

Although the parents of the children have made choices leading to their children being separated from them, we are not privy to the decision-making on the part of the parents. Were their lives being threatened? Were they fleeing starvation? Had they been promised safe harbor in the United States by person or persons who could not deliver on those promises?

What we can know and affect is the response of the U.S. Government.

If an American parent were to cage their children and providing the minimum elements for sustenance (food, water, toilet access), he or she would rightfully be charged with child abuse.

What in your mind makes it right for the U.S. Government to perform criminal acts against children?

Jeff
6/20/2018 10:41:58 am

Most of the parents didn’t even come to the border with their kids... They literally separated themselves and that was somewhere around 87% of them. Those numbers were released the other day!

Marcel Kincaid
6/22/2018 06:09:34 am

Stop lying and trolling, Jeff.

Shannon
6/20/2018 11:30:24 am

I like your comments for the most part. Although you have taken a side, your argument seems more down the centre of the fanatical either / or posturing that seems to be going on. I’m not fond of taking a religious text to determine a political stance. That often creates poor policy and decreases the credibility of the spiritual text. I find myself hoping that what’s happening is monitored and is being done in the best interest of Humanity as a whole. I agree that sometimes some feathers need to be ruffled to effect positive change; however, a large part of that has to include effective means to limit agrevating people. Is this situation a case of “tough love” or a case of manipulative selfish Tyrany. I don’t know. If what you say is true I suspect it would not be to the latter. When governments are scared; however, tyrany becomes justified. I am curious to see this play out.

Marcel Kincaid
6/22/2018 06:08:30 am

Alan Rash, try reading the article you're commenting on ... nothing you say is true.

Deb Blagg
6/19/2018 09:58:55 pm

Excellent research and myth-busting! Keep it up!

Susan Watts
6/20/2018 03:33:34 am

Thank you for doing this .. You Rock!

Dave Oehler
6/20/2018 04:20:59 am

Hi! thanks for writing this.
I think that folks who are advocating for refugees and immigrants near the border ought to acknowledge that many who cross the border illegally and present themselves as asylum seekers are doing it because they know that instead of getting deported, they will get placed on a list for a court hearing and that it will take several years, maybe 4, maybe 6 years, for that court hearing to happen. In the meantime, they can legally stay in the US. This system is crummy, but I don't know what to do to fix it.

Jeff
6/20/2018 10:44:28 am

That’s easy! Just tell these politicians to stop making this a political matter and go back to the table!

E. PRAHM
6/21/2018 01:57:16 pm

"That's easy," right Jeff. Have YOU called your State Representative & given YOUR STELLAR opinion? In order for you to really be "heard" that is what you should try to do. Have you gone anywhere to PROTEST for your albiet, BELIEFS? Are you at least, registered to VOTE & if so, do you vote on everything you're asked to & not just the Presidential elections? WE, THE PEOPLE, need to DO SOMETHING; GET INTO ACTION, not just sit in your Lay Z Boy & complain on Facebook about very well done, and researched article! I still have not seen any research or even SNOPES from any of the people who disagree with this article. Your entitled to your opinion of course, but realize that without anything to support it, that's all they are; OPINIONS & you know what they say about OPINIONS... & WHAT THEY ARE LIKE... EVERYONE HAS ONE.

Marcel Kincaid
6/22/2018 06:11:46 am

You don't know much of anything, Dave. What you "think" has no connection with reality.

Jennifer
6/20/2018 04:33:03 am

Thanks so much for the info. I have been up all night posting news. Also replying to a lot of trump supporters that are totally uninformed, getting their news from memes. It's very tiring and like talking to a brick wall.

Jodi Riggins
6/20/2018 05:26:57 am

Hi! I'm just wondering where you attained the statistics that say most of these parents are presenting themselves at a port of entry? I'd like to include it in my responses to people.

Karen
6/20/2018 05:46:46 am

Yes, Trump administration are deplorable, but it is not Trumps policy. Sadly, this has been going on since 2014 under Obama and before, see Huffington Post article. It's also wrapped up in the 9th Circuit Courts ruling. I didn't hear the left complain about the interment then. I'm sick of both parties using opportunism and lies to "win."
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/.../border-detention... Republicans introduced a bill yesterday to stop this, let's hope it passes quickly

Marcel Kincaid
6/22/2018 06:12:51 am

Stop lying, Karen, and try actually reading the article you're responding to before trolling it.

MS
6/20/2018 05:50:48 am

Thank you for putting this together, some folks are believing whatever memes come their way.

Jess
6/20/2018 05:59:12 am

The other tid bit that keeps getting tossed around is that kids will only be separated from their parents if the person is only pretending to be their parent so all of these people must be smugglers trying to use kids to get in, and that if they are seeking asylum and afraid for their children’s welfare, the kids are safer even under these conditions than where they came from. It’s so disheartening to me how people care more about fighting on Trumps behalf than looking at what is happening from a human stand point and thinking “yea we could do better, we could all do better”

Tamara
6/20/2018 06:49:16 am

Thank you so much for your time and effort says you put this together. Most of the people that are for this awful treatment of children don't care about facts. However, if you can please post your sources of the statistics and documentation you refer to, that would be more accurate than linking articles because they don't believe the news anyway. Thank you, again!

Drea
6/20/2018 07:00:51 am

How do you respond to what “Reslity Check” says? I get this thrown at me! Besides the fact that even if everything g she said is true, it’s wrong and happening now and it’s good that people are speaking out, what is factually wrong?” https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=g_fbO6tSYfw

John Curran
6/20/2018 09:00:07 am

Your blog is cute but not correct, the law signed by Bill Clinton (A Democrat) does require it! Also.the Human trafficking act section 234 does require it, also a Federal court order requires it. The law was created because children were being abused and raped when houses together. Also, currently 80% of children are coming across unaccompanied or with adults they have no relationship with. See this law was created to Protect Children. Also, our laws as much as most would like to aren't made to be selective or pick and choose. The President and the AG as well as all members of Congress take an oath of office to uphold those laws.

Now, nobody would disagree protecting the children should be the first priority, stopping the human trafficking of children should not be compromised.

Where is the question of Child abuse to those who bring the child across dangerous terrains with gang and cartel members to illegally enter the USA? The children should be protected from those.

You blog is rosy, yet extremely tainted and not based on the full facts and issues.

Ian Leahy
6/20/2018 05:36:50 pm

So, you have all the facts? Please show me the law President Clinton signed, plus the Human Trafficking Act; section 234, plus the Federal court order. Also. please tell us your source for the statistic about 80% of children being unaccompanied, or with someone they have no relationship with. I'd like to read all of those.

Marcel Kincaid
6/22/2018 06:14:41 am

You're neither cute nor correct, John. You're a blatant liar, as all right wingers are.

Bo
6/20/2018 09:17:18 am

It’s time for trump supporters to look up the definition of cult and deprogram themselves. We are talking about human beings here. Nobody is going to travel hundreds if not thousands of miles on foot to get into this country without good reason. We already have rapists and murderers and “bad people” who were born right here in the US. We have room to take in people who are being threatened/abused. It’s part of our founding principles. Those of us born in this country don’t get a free pass on our humanity just because of dumb luck. Perhaps it’s time for France to take back the Statue of Liberty. It seems to have lost its meaning.

Angie
6/20/2018 06:07:28 pm

I agree with every word of yours Bo.

Anna McCall link
6/21/2018 02:30:46 pm

I was provided this specific post by a FB friend who commented in support of one of my posts today on the subject of this 'policy' of tRump, Sessions, and Miller. It is NOT a law, as some of your commenters profess and it was NOT a practice of Clinton or Obama!

Lee
6/20/2018 10:04:26 am

There's so much confusion out there, I thank you for your efforts. I try to look at information from many points of views and have found even conservative outlets do not agree with the current administration's policy on immigration. Here is a piece from the National Review on the moral (and technical) aspects of this policy: https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/06/family-separation-bible-illegal-immigration/

eileen gaudette-crowe
6/20/2018 01:40:28 pm

Thank you so much for this post!!!! It's clear and complete and answers my questions about this separating and detaining children of refugees to this country. I've been sharing it to groups I'm in, and to people I'm discussing this with.

carolin ellwood
6/20/2018 03:10:16 pm

“if people are genuine refugees...there is no deterrent we can create that is going to be severe enough, cruel enough, nasty enough that will stop them fleeing the terror from which the flee in their own lands”
former Australian Prime Minister, Malcolm Fraser

Robert Martin
6/20/2018 03:28:26 pm

Overall good read, but you get #1 wrong. Under Obama, families were separated. Not to the extent now, but they were.
From 2012

https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/falling-through-cracks

From 2015

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/mexican-kids-held-for-months-as-punishment-for-border-crossing/2015/03/10/311d319a-b2f2-11e4-bf39-5560f3918d4b_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.f96b6c3475ca

Tell us to do our research. All good. Please fully do yours too.

Marcel Kincaid
6/22/2018 06:17:07 am

Try actually READING #1, Robert. It doesn't say that families weren't separated under Obama.

ripuanewhole
6/21/2018 02:04:47 am

I find it incredibly frustrating that someone who claims to be a PHD (a reason to trust her) would go to the effort to purposefully lie to people like this. It is so difficult to identify the truth these days, and I’m not claiming to have everything right, but she clearly has a liberal bias. I’m going to go through her Myths 1 by 1 and debunk them with my conservative bias. But before I do that I’m going to provide a little context and history.

A) Libs have wanted open borders for years, and have been using every sneaky means possible to accomplish this goal. Their main support for this (aside from the feel good human rights aspect) is the studies that show immigrants improve our economy. Like everything in life there is a limit. Open borders is a horrible idea, because the undernourished people in this world outnumber USA citizens by a factor of 3, and the poor (making $5.15/day) out number us by a factor of 18. If we opened up our borders to everyone, we would be overrun in a few months, and enter 3rd world country status pretty quickly. It is currently impossible for us to help everyone in this world, but in order for us to be in a position to help anyone we must maintain our current quality of life. If the west is overrun by impoverished people then humanity could very well enter another dark age. On the flip side it could bring on the time of the end, so I suppose from our SDA perspective open borders might be a good thing. ;-)

B) In 1997, the Flores settlement required the US government to release children after 20 days, along with other requirements.
https://www.humanrightsfirst.org/resource/flores-settlement-brief-history-and-next-steps
The link doesn’t discuss the 20 days, but I assume it is accurate as this number has been thrown around by multiple sources. The feds had been holding mothers and children together during this 20 day period (I’m unclear what was happening after that), but that wasn’t good enough for the ACLU, so they sued that children should not be incarcerated. The link below lays out the timeline for that judicial process, but July of 2015 a judge ruled that children could not be incarcerated with mothers seeking asylum, and the decision was upheld by the 9th circuit court in January of 2016. This is why children are being separated when their parents are incarcerated.
http://www.aila.org/infonet/flores-v-reno-settlement-agreement

C) Illegal immigrants figured out that if they asked for Asylum that the government was forced to process their request, which took a long period of time. There is conflicting data, and it isn’t clear what percentages are accurate, but if the Asylum hearing was favorable, then it appears that 22-30% don’t show up for their hearing. If the Asylum hearing was unfavorable, then it appears that the no shows are in the 85% vicinity. Unfortunately this is old data, but I couldn’t find anything newer (that wasn’t clearly biased).
https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/us-detention-asylum-seekers-and-human-rights
This is where Obama’s catch and release policy becomes a factor, where ICE would capture people illegally crossing the boarder, the illegal would ask for Asylum, and they would be released. Obviously this policy does not secure our border, and creates a negative situation for the illegal immigrant, as well as our country.

D) Did Obama ever separate children from their mothers? I hate liberal fact checkers, and here is an example of why. They state the fact that they are checking in a way that allows them to come up with the determination that complies with their political agenda. Case in point, Politifact… “No, Donald Trump’s separation of immigrant families was not Barack Obama’s policy.” Obviously Trump’s zero tolerance policy is not the same as Obama’s catch and release policy, so they easily concluded “FALSE”. But, if you actually read their “fact” check, you’ll discover, that YES, Obama did separate children from their mothers. Politifact downplays that fact much as possible, but the fact remains that Yes, Obama did it too.
http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2018/jun/19/matt-schlapp/no-donald-trumps-separation-immigrant-families-was/
Additionally, there were multiple pictures floating around the internet showing children detained in pens. Then it came out that those pictures were taken in 2014, clearly establishing that the child separation under Obama was on a larger scale then politifact leads us to believe. That being said, it is obvious that it has happened at a much larger scale under Trump.

E) Illegal immigration is a decade old problem that Republicans and Democrats alike have avoided dealing with. Republicans never did anything because their base wanted tougher laws then they could pass through congress, and Democrats want open borders (which

ripuanewhole
6/21/2018 02:07:38 am

E) Illegal immigration is a decade old problem that Republicans and Democrats alike have avoided dealing with. Republicans never did anything because their base wanted tougher laws then they could pass through congress, and Democrats want open borders (which won’t pass either). Now we have Trump with his zero-tolerance policy. I support Trump in attempting to solve this problem by securing our borders, but along with most of the rest of the country I don’t like children being separated from their parents. So Trump’s executive order today comes with mixed feelings. I have appreciated Trumps efforts in reducing executive over reach and forcing Congress to do their job by creating the laws, and this goes counter to it. But… it is much better for kids to be with their parents, and this gives Congress a little more time to fix the law. I’m sure that the courts will overrule Trump’s unconstitutionally executive order pretty quick.

Ok, so now to the Myth’s:

Myth 1: This is not a new policy and was practiced under Obama and Clinton - FALSE: Her link goes to the zero-tolerance policy. She’s misleading people the same thing that Politifact did (see item D above), attempting to identify something as a lie that really wasn’t. She even threw Clinton in there. I get a lot of conservative posts on my facebook page, and I didn’t see 1 post claiming this as Clinton’s policy.

Myth 2: This is the only way to deter undocumented immigration - FALSE: Misleading again. No sane person is trying to claim that this is the ONLY way to deter illegals. Obviously there are other methods that could be used. The myth question should have been… Is the zero-tolerance policy needed to secure our borders? Until Congress gets off their duffs and fixes our immigration problems, I think that it is likely the most effective, but I’m sure Trump would be happy to entertain other solutions if they actually had the goal of securing the border. Complaining about the policy doesn’t count as offering a better solution, and I’ve already established what would likely happen with open borders (see A above).

Myth 3: Most of the people coming across the border are just trying to take advantage of our country by taking our jobs - FALSE: Misleading again. Should have been worded… Illegal immigrants are taking advantage of our country and driving down wages. Her argument didn’t even support her conclusion. It is clear that illegal immigrants are a strain on our schools, healthcare, etc., and with all this talk about civil liberties, you’d think that Libs would object to the fact that we have created a class of people equivalent to indentured servants in this country. USA teenagers today think they’re too good for work that I did as a kid (Picking blueberries, mowing lawns, etc.). They think it’s a Mexican’s job (but as long as they’re good liberals nobody will accuse them of being racist). The salaries for the construction industry won’t ever go up (shy of government intervention) as long as we have a long line of illegal immigrants willing to work for pennies. This is not fair to USA citizens, and dehumanizes the immigrants.

Myth 4: We're a country that respects the Rule of Law, and if people break the law, this is what they get: FALSE: Now she’s straight up lying. To say that there should no consequence for breaking the law is unconscionable. If the laws are bad then they must be changed per our constitution. Very bad things happen when you think you can pick and choose which laws to follow. Presidents changing law’s enacted by congress via executive order, or refusing to enforce certain laws, should NEVER have been allowed. Interestingly enough, her supporting argument for this myth would have been better suited for myth 3, and I debunked it there.

Myth 5: The children have to be separated from their parents because the parents must be arrested and it would be cruel to put children in jail with their parents - FALSE: Mixture of misleading and lie. As I proved with item B above, children can’t be detained with their parents (until Trumps unconstitutional executive order that will temporarily allow it). The misleading part of her myth is that obviously you don’t have to arrest the parents. That is the policy that Trump changed in order to enforce the border. The cruel to put children in jail with parents line is also misleading. Obviously you could humanely detain families together, but you can’t send children to an adult prison.

Myth 6: We have rampant fraud in our asylum process, the proof of which is the significant increase we have in the number of people applying for asylum - FALSE: Misleading, and lying. She provided no actual data to support her position, and linked a leftist fact checker (Politifact) claiming that it was fair and balanced.

ripuanewhole
6/21/2018 02:09:07 am

Myth 6: We have rampant fraud in our asylum process, the proof of which is the significant increase we have in the number of people applying for asylum - FALSE: Misleading, and lying. She provided no actual data to support her position, and linked a leftist fact checker (Politifact) claiming that it was fair and balanced. We do have rampant fraud in our asylum process. Ironically, the Politifact link she provided proved that we do have rampant fraud due to the small percentage of the asylum requests that are actually granted. If there was no fraud most to all would be granted. Also, see item C above in reference to Asylum seekers disappearing. The “significant increase” reference in her myth statement is the part that is misleading.

Myth 7: The Democrats caused this, "it's their law." - FALSE: I partially agree with her on this one. It was one of Trumps many stupid comments. The initial law as she points out was signed into law by Clinton (a Democrat). The modifications to the law came from leftist judges who are likely Dems. But, as judges are supposed to be impartial their modifications technically can’t be attributed to Dems.

Myth 8: The parents and children will be reunited shortly, once the parents' court cases are finalized - FALSE: I can’t imagine that the children wouldn’t reunited, as it would be awful if they weren’t. But… It’s late and I don’t know enough about this question to address it. So I’ll pull a logical fallacy here and point out that Obama placed immigrant kids with human sex traffickers. Even the lib fact checkers identify it as truth. Funny, I don’t recall ever hearing the biased lib media rant and rave about how awful that was.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/did-obama-administration-children-human-traffickers/

Myth 9: This policy is legal - LIKELY FALSE: It’s pretty safe to assume that either Congress will change the law, or this case will go all the way to the Supreme Court (or both). To be clear I’m only talking about the zero-tolerance policy. Considering the fact that this is an enforcement issue, Trump is within his constitutional rights. With the current makeup of the SCOTUS, I’d wager that it will eventually be ruled legal, overturning a 9th circus decision saying that it isn’t.

Marcel Kincaid
6/22/2018 06:18:02 am

"she clearly has a liberal bias"

You clearly have a lying right wing asshole bias.

Sandy Brandmeier
6/21/2018 09:44:37 am

This is incredibly helpful. We need good debate with facts that can be challenged by both liberals and conservatives to get a balanced--and hopefully eventually--a truthful view. I read both arguments and this is the best understanding of the issue I've ever had. It's so easy to read one version and try to run with it because it feels good to you. I'd love to see both Michelle Martin and "ripuanewhole" come to an agreement on the situation by deeply understanding each other's perspective and facts. If that were possible, what could we do next to get reasonable action to move forward in the right way?

Bret McIntyre
6/21/2018 01:03:08 pm

I second Sandy's comment. Dr. Martin, can you please respond to the debunking attempts above? This would further the intellectual honesty you appear to purport. (I'm on your side, but I think a point-by-point rebuttal is a point of Honor for you at this time). Best wishes.

Marcel Kincaid
6/22/2018 06:21:09 am

ripaunewhole is a dishonest sack of right wing crap. His comments are packed full of fallacies and weaseling.

Russell Ali
6/22/2018 01:09:57 am

https://www.vox.com/2016/4/28/11515132/iirira-clinton-immigration this kind blows you out this was written before the election and yes the Dems knew where to look why???/ and they sent a Senator Merkley who needs to win re-election to make the "bust" . Making Trump write an executive order does not make it a permanent solution. Coming together to actually reform laws makes it stick. Why wont they come to the table....

Edie C link
6/22/2018 04:40:42 am

Dear Michelle, Thank you for writing this piece. I'm an an average senior citizen. It is said that we cannot open the eyes of those who blindly follow Donald Trump. They say history repeats itself and for those of us whose eye are open, we see another Hitler in the rising. This hypocrite will hire immigrants from Mexico to staff his Mar-i-largo compound and to pick his grapes and will pay them very little and supply no benefits Anyone who visits LA will note that every morning, big money corporations send out pick up trucks to collect undocumented workers to do slave labor! How many women are hired to raise the rich children? How many will serve you your coffee or wipe the ass of the elderly in many nursing homes? These are the jobs that Americans will not do! Not only are they using these workers, they are breaking the law by doing so! Why not crack down on them? Why because these are Trump's base! I see that many have criticized you for your gramma and or your spelling...don't be discouraged because this happens to me all the time! I don't see any of them doing anything to speak out against this injustice, just them trying to make you look small bad to distract how bad Donald Trump is! I love your blog, please continue to expose the truth. Best of luck...


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    Dr. Michelle Martin is a social worker, policy specialist and Assistant Professor at California State University, Fullerton in the Department of Social Work, where she teaches social welfare policy, and researches dynamics related to immigrants, political asylum-seekers, refugees and other displaced populations.


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